| Mary: |
Thank you for sitting down with me tonight. This is indeed
an honor. |
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| John: |
Ah. |
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| Mary: |
When I was doing the research for the interview I realized
I could probably sit here and talk with you for three days and we wouldn't
cover it all. |
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| John: |
You might fall asleep. |
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| Mary: |
Oh, no! |
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| John: |
No, I feel like I've done enough that now I'm getting started,
I can take it somewhere. |
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| Mary: |
You've done your background work, right? |
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| John: |
Yeah, pretty much. I appreciate that you say I've done a lot,
but look at Henry Mancini's credits. Or some people that are filmmakers
or certain performers with different things. Maybe part of that comes from
my high school friend, Steve Martin. My brother managed him and produced
his albums and a lot of his movies. Steve just keeps making things. He keeps
making really good things. |
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| Mary: |
Right. |
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| John: |
Not that I feel competition; I feel more inspiration from
him. He doesn't know that. |
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| Mary: |
I was looking on your site and some of the memoirs and the
little stories that you told. What I really liked about those was that they
were very down to earth. It's just, I met these people and they were cool
people. You have a very humble way of looking at it. You don't flaunt who
you are or who you know, which is nice. |
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| John: |
You see, it's all who knows you. |
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| Mary: |
Right. |
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| John: |
I've enjoyed watching and being in the same spaces
with huge worldwide names. Some of them deal with it great and they're an
inspiration. Others, you can tell, don't realize the part that they're playing
is one that is transitory or based upon views of the moment. Check in with
them ten years later and see where they are. |
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| Mary: |
Let's talk a little bit about what you've been working on
recently. You've got a lot of different stuff that you've worked on recently
and maybe long term. |
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| John: |
I like to think of coming to fruition. |
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| Mary: |
Okay. |
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| John: |
Some things that I've worked on for a while (The Wild West
album), just came out this past summer. I made it 10 years ago. The week
that it came out and won the Western Heritage award, the record company
owner called me and said, I'm closing the company. |
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| Mary: |
Oh, dear. |
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| John: |
So there I am with a prize for an album that isn't on a label
that exists. But it took me many years to get to Varese Sarabande, the label
that's put it out now. So that's a big deal to me because the Circle album
was a very important record in my personal history, but this Wild West
album is like Will the Circle Be Unbroken of 1890. Of course, I couldn't
get any of the known people from the 1800's, but I got others to stand in.
The music was what was important. |
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| Mary: |
You originally did the work for that back in 1993, right?
|
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| John: |
Oh, man. That was the series and [then] I made the album.
A year later, the album came out and then stopped being out. |
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|
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I did the music for the 10-hour mini-series and what that
meant was I recorded six hours and 20 minutes of music in a three month
period because each show needed about 34 to 37 minutes...times ten. It was
like making five or six albums in three months. |
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| Mary: |
That's a little bit of pressure. |
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| John: |
Oh, it was fun. It was 72 work days straight and I took two
days off and did another 18. |
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| Mary: |
Okay. |
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| John: |
And that's what it took. |
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| Mary: |
And what drew you to that project? |
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| John: |
I got hired to do it. I went in and tried out for it. I was
contacted by one of the producers to do two of the hours and he says, "I
think you can get the whole show." I had the meeting with the overall
producer of the whole show and I guess I convinced him. Basically, I had
four of my boys with me in Hollywood and I said, "You guys stay here
at the hotel and I'm going to go have this meeting. If it goes well, first
of all, who wants to go to Universal?" And they all did at that time.
[I] said, "Well, we could either go to Universal or the beach and if
we go to Universal, we'll still go to the beach, but I'll be back in a couple
hours." I came back and said, "Well, get in the car. We're going
to Universal because I got the deal." I couldn't have afforded it,
otherwise. That's an expensive proposition, raising six kids. |
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| Mary: |
Oh, yeah. Six is quite a few. |
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| John: |
And this was when I wasn't even in the Dirt Band, too, but
it worked out. |
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| Mary: |
When you left the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, what prompted you
to leave? |
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| John: |
I knew I'd come back at some point; at least I felt like I
would. I'd invested 21 years of my life in it. But we'd gotten to a point
in the 80's where they weren't recording any of my music anymore. It was
considered peripheral or let's say, incidental and not necessary. We don't
need those instrumentals, we need hits. |
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| Mary: |
Right. |
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| John: |
It wasn't my opinion that mattered on song selection and I
didn't like some of the songs. I was being less involved in some of the
arrangements and I thought they were going the wrong way. I was getting
divorced and had six kids to raise and I wanted to control my own time the
best I could. So you add up all those things. The problem was, I had other
things that I couldn't cram into a band format, the band niche. |
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|
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So after I left, in the time period I've been gone, I've made
six albums, four of them mine and two others with two other projects. I
got an Emmy nomination for music, music that couldn't be used on
a Dirt Band album. I got a Grammy nomination for music, music that
could have been on a Dirt Band album. And I got great reviews, fortunately,
for things that I was putting out, but that wouldn't fit on a Dirt Band
album. |
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|
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I started developing a solo career. I wanted to pursue the
solo thing and solo performing and other things that come from that. The
band format was just too narrow and slow. |
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|
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[Now], we've been playing together as a four piece
for two years. Some things I would change, but it's okay. The band takes
about a third or a fourth of my time and I like it. There is no way I could
replicate running out and say "Hey, let's start a band and make hits
and 40 years later we'll keep playing." So it's fine for what it is. |
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|
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Thankfully, I've ended up working with Jeff and Jimmy over
a long span of time and enough things worked out. But nobody else could
do it. Nobody else could be the first American group to go to Russia. |
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| Mary: |
That in itself was amazing. What was that tour like? |
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| John: |
It was like a whole other country. Going to Russia was an
honor and a wonderful thing. We did 28 shows in 30 days. Some days were
two show days. It was strange to represent, in the live format, all of American
music. We took a female singer with us and that was really fun because she
sang a couple Linda Ronstadt songs and other things. We actually did more
music that wasn't ours; an extra Buddy Holly song and a couple of others.
So it was really fun. |
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It was good, the reach those people. It was good to get back
home and then find out that what we did leave was not better than what we
had [found], although I had no doubt. But it was way better. The difficulty
was not there as much as when we came back and listened to other Americans
from a different perspective. To hear my brother in law complaining about
"I took my motor home up to the lake last weekend and pulled the boat
and we took Bob the neighbor and had to get him to chip in for gas. What's
this country coming to? Gas was $2 a gallon. It cost me $60." First
of all, he had the money. Second of all, his motor home has more square
footage than most people [in Russia] had in their apartments. Third of all,
they didn't know what a motor home was. And a boat? Very few people had
stuff like that in Russia. Just overall, it re-emphasized the fact that
Americans, in general, are not very grateful for what they do have. And
they don't appreciate just how much it is. In comparison to the real world
of the rest of the world. So coming back from Russia, that is a major impression
that was like, "Oh, my God. We really are fortunate." It's not
everybody, it's just a lot of people. |
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| Mary: |
Right, right. And I know exactly what that's like. I've been
out of the country. I was in Berlin the year that the wall came down. |
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| John: |
Well, you've seen it, then. You've seen the other world kind
of thing where you can't just walk into a store and get eggs at two in the
morning. |
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I was amused at the mouths and the jaws dropping in amazement
as I told a room full of people what a 7-11 was. "You mean, you can
get milk at two in the morning? Unbelievable. What a country. At two in
the morning." |
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I actually got in a line in Russia. I had heard about people
lining up without knowing what they were lining up for. I saw a line forming
and I got in it and asked, with my translator asking the people in front
of me. He had to go five people in front of me to find out what it was they
were lined up for. "No, I don't know. Ask the man in front of me."
They were just getting in line because something was available. |
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| Mary: |
They knew that there was something and they probably wanted
it. |
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| John: |
And when it came back, it was shoes. [The guy in front of
me says,] "I don't know why I wait for shoes. They're never any good
anyway." |
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| Mary: |
Wow. It sounds like you had a good experience over there.
|
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| John: |
It was wonderful. It will be in my book when it ever comes
out. There are two books; there's one about this path that I've been on
and stories that you see on the website. Told in that manner. I feel like
I've been a voyeur in my own life. |
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|
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I didn't know that I'd end up sharing a dressing room with
Eddie Van Halen and Bob Dylan one night. They didn't either. They didn't
know anything that I did. So I asked them if they wanted to start a bluegrass
group and they kind of looked at me, puzzled, both of them united in that
moment. We were from two disparate worlds. You know, Bob's putting his harp
in the rack and getting ready to go play and Eddie's hammering on his guitar.
And [I say,] "Hey, you guys want to start a bluegrass group?"
They both looked at me and then they looked at each other and kind of went,
"Huh?" |
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Anyway. One book is, I'd like to do a complete book of Russia
because I have 400 hundred photos. I've got an hour's worth of 8mm sound
film that I shot. |
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| Mary: |
Oh, wow. |
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| John: |
But I'm in no hurry. It just gets more antique-looking as
it gets older. |
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| Mary: |
I think we'd like to see that. I know I would and I'd love
to read the book, after reading some of what was on your website. You have
a humorous way of looking at things and telling a story that's funny. Like
when your son almost got you arrested at the airport. |
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| John: |
Did that make you laugh when you were reading it? |
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| Mary: |
Yeah. |
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| John: |
Oh, God, how wonderful. That's so frightening to do that.
It's really frightening to step outside of your realm. And I've written
before and gotten paid for it. A couple of magazines and some articles here
and there and liner notes. But that's different. To do this is like, "Okay,
I'm writing." You know? And you expect somebody, or, you would hope,
somebody will read it. |
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| Mary: |
You've been making music for 40 years and I'm just curious
what your thoughts are on the music industry - how it's changing, if you
think it's changing, and some of the technology that's coming along now
that I think is going to help new and independent artists build a fan base
and move forward in a different way. |
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| John: |
It's always been changing from the first cylinder that Edison
invented. A year later, Columbia came out with a different cylinder and
then the flat record, 78 and then songs on both sides and then the 33 and
then the 45 and stereo. Then the 8-track and the cassette and quadraphonic. |
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On the business side, I'm not sure. It does help that more
people have a chance, but it also increases the amount of bad music. That
makes it more difficult to find the good music sometimes. It used to be
harder to get something to the point of getting a certain number of people
to listen to it. |
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Excuse me. Correction. It used to be hard to get music recorded
and then a record where a certain number of people could listen to it. You
had to get through a bunch of hurdles. |
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|
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And even then, there was some bad music, right? But now there
are a lot of incredibly mediocre recordings and there are some good ones
and I think they [the good ones] get buried and it's almost - I don't know.
I don't know what the answer is. I have two kids that are pursuing music
and, comparatively, I feel lucky that we [the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band] got
in when we did and don't have to try and do it now because I think it's
harder, even if you're good. |
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| Mary: |
So what kind of advice do you give your sons on this wonderful
music business? |
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| John: |
I guess what I've told him is [to] keep their publishing as
long as they can. You get more done by saying yes than no. Not that you
blindly say yes to everything, but say yes to more than you say no to and
you'll be better off. But you don't believe a review just because you reached
that one reviewer. You're supposed to be good if it's a good review. What,
are you supposed to go on stage and just kind of be mediocre? So if you
go on and get a great review, it's not more than you just doing your job.
|
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| Mary: |
So obviously in your career, you've played the big venues
and you're playing here at Threadgill's which is a much smaller venue. Do
you have a preference or does it just depend on which audience you're trying
to reach that night? |
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| John: |
My actual preference is about 800 to 1200 people, that's a
theater-type of room. That's the size that I really love and I feel totally
at home in. I'm fine if I'm being the opening act in front of 5000 or 8000,
I know how to do that also. |
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It's also good to play a small club of 80 or 150 or 200 people.
It's a different intimacy, a different way you can take them. Threadgill's
is one of the best places in Austin, so I'm very grateful to be playing
here. It's very difficult. What I try and do is a lot of comedy. When you
have audible disruptions and subtle instrumental things and maybe right
when the punch line comes something that's supposed to be funny, if a truck
roars, I don't know. I'm a little worried about that. |
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Yeah, my preference would be that 800-1200 seats. But that
doesn't mean that this isn't also [good]. This is a lot better than working
for a living. |
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| Mary: |
Absolutely. I was just curious. And I know everybody has their
own thing they feel comfortable with. |
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| John: |
And with the Dirt Band, every year, we do some shows that
are festival types and there are anywhere from 20,000-35,000 people. And
those are fun. They're okay. It's good to [do] them every now and then,
but it's not really what I love. It's better than not doing a show. |
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| Mary: |
Right. I can imagine in a smaller venue you can connect a
little bit more with the audience. |
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| John: |
Well, one thing that happens at some of the larger venues,
if you're on a show that has 40,000 people that have actually bought tickets
then also on the show is Brian somebody and George
Strait and a bunch of other people that are the actual headliners. In
our position, we're in a healthy position in the billing, but when we go
on at five or six o'clock, everybody has already picked their seats. And
you'll be playing to 8000 people most likely, or we would be, but if you're
playing to 8000 people that are in a seating area of 40,000, and they're
scattered out and there's the headlining seats that have been chosen by
the [people], it's very difficult and you can't hear people clapping. You
see them clapping, you don't feel it. You say something that's funny and
you're not sure where the laughter is or isn't. So that's not my favorite
thing, but we know how to do it and they seem to like it. |
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| Mary: |
So now, are you still doing the Acoustic Traveler show
on XM satellite? |
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| John: |
Yes. In the third year. |
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| Mary: |
Is that a weekly show? |
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| John: |
Well, I make one a month and then I do an occasional special.
But the one a month is run four times. And then another two times several
months later. |
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| Mary: |
Okay. |
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| John: |
So yeah, when I first started, I told them, "I'll do
it weekly" and then I went, "Well, maybe bi-weekly would be [better]."
Boy, am I glad I settled on once a month because it's more work than I envisioned.
It's like a monthly term paper. |
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| Mary: |
Do you have different artists on your show? |
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| John: |
No. I play other people. But I only play people that I know
or that I've recorded with or performed with or I met someone through my
own traveling. |
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| Mary: |
Oh, okay. |
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| John: |
Like one night, at one show I played a guy I [had]
watched for a while in the Nashville airport. He was playing in the airport.
And I [said to him,] "I want to get your CD." I bought his $5
CD. I said, "What's your favorite song? I'll play that on XM next month."
The guy was tickled. |
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And then there are tapes that I have of Steve Martin in 1970.
Greg Allman before the Allman Brothers and Kenny Loggins and I play some
tapes like that. I also play some music from 1924 and 1925. I try to relate
it to now. Hank Williams, Sr.'s first big song, "Love Sick Blues,"
was a well-known song in the '20's. And when you listen to that original
version, you go, "Oh, my God, that's where he got it." Even that
little yodeling thing he does. I make those points to show the audience
listening that these people are all connected and connected to them. |
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| Mary: |
Okay. Well, I think I've covered just about everything I wanted
to ask. Did you have anything you wanted to add to what we've talked about
or that we didn't talk about? |
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| John: |
I'm just proud of the music that I make and I'm glad I'm told
by people that I've been playing to over the last 10 years that some of
the new stuff is the best, some of the new music is the best. Like the Acoustic
Traveler album. It's frustrating to try and get attention for it, but
I appreciate that people check out the website to find out about it. |
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| Mary: |
Okay. I'll do my best to send as many people as possible to
your site to check it out. |
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| John: |
I put the "tic" in eclectic. So it's kind of hard
to get it out there sometimes. But things are good. And you might be surprised,
if you bought that Acoustic Traveler album, how long you'd listen
to it. I've been told that by people. And I've had people say they had to
buy another one because "My wife won't let me have that back." |
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| Mary: |
Well, I thank you very much. |
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| John: |
Thank you. |
© 2007 Mary L. Duval, all rights reserved
